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Turning Curves Podcast

Welcome to Turning Curves Podcast, where we uplift perspectives from people doing inspiring work to make a measurable difference in their communities. Join us quarterly as we meet with champions of data-driven decision-making from diverse sectors.

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Latest Episodes

Episode 4 – Brent Kelsey: Building State Behavioral Health Commissions

July 23rd, 2025 | 40 Min

In this episode, we talk to Brent Kelsey, Director of the Office of Substance Use and Mental Health for Utah’s Department of Health and Human Services. Brent discusses his initiative to develop the Behavioral Health Commission for the state of Utah. He tells the story of creating the commission and the challenges and successes they have experienced so far. He offers advice for others looking to do similar endeavors in their community. 

Brent Kelsey is the Director for the Office of Substance Use and Mental Health. In this position, he administers public substance use disorder and mental health services and oversees the Utah State Hospital. Brent also serves as an Assistant Division Director responsible for behavioral health within the Division of Integrated Health (Medicaid).   Brent has worked in public behavioral health administration for 25 years.

Prior to his current role, he served as the Assistant Director for Substance Use Disorders. Brent also worked as the Justice Program Manager responsible for Drug Courts and other programs designed to ensure that individuals involved with the criminal justice system have access to effective treatment. In 2004, Brent was chosen to receive the Governor’s Award from the Utah Substance Abuse and Anti-Violence Coordinating Council for outstanding contributions to the substance abuse field. Brent served on the Justice Reinvestment Initiative Implementation Committee, The Commission on Criminal and Juvenile Justice, and the Utah Substance Abuse Advisory Council.  Brent began his career working for the Salt Lake County Criminal Justice Services Felony Drug Court Program.

Brent was educated at the University of Utah, and the Saint Louis University School of Law.  He lives in Salt Lake City with his wife Jennifer, their two children and one precious hound.  

Turning Curves Episode 3 Coleen Heaton

Episode 3 – Coleen Heaton: Changing the Way the World Sees People With Disabilities

January 29th, 2025 | 43 Min

In this episode, we talk to Brent Kelsey, Director of the Office of Substance Use and Mental Health for Utah’s Department of Health and Human Services. Brent discusses his initiative to develop the Behavioral Health Commission for the state of Utah. He tells the story of creating the commission and the challenges and successes they have experienced so far. He offers advice for others looking to do similar endeavors in their community. 

Brent Kelsey is the Director for the Office of Substance Use and Mental Health. In this position, he administers public substance use disorder and mental health services and oversees the Utah State Hospital. Brent also serves as an Assistant Division Director responsible for behavioral health within the Division of Integrated Health (Medicaid).   Brent has worked in public behavioral health administration for 25 years.

Prior to his current role, he served as the Assistant Director for Substance Use Disorders. Brent also worked as the Justice Program Manager responsible for Drug Courts and other programs designed to ensure that individuals involved with the criminal justice system have access to effective treatment. In 2004, Brent was chosen to receive the Governor’s Award from the Utah Substance Abuse and Anti-Violence Coordinating Council for outstanding contributions to the substance abuse field. Brent served on the Justice Reinvestment Initiative Implementation Committee, The Commission on Criminal and Juvenile Justice, and the Utah Substance Abuse Advisory Council.  Brent began his career working for the Salt Lake County Criminal Justice Services Felony Drug Court Program.

Brent was educated at the University of Utah, and the Saint Louis University School of Law.  He lives in Salt Lake City with his wife Jennifer, their two children and one precious hound.  

podcast cover photo anne mcintyre-lahner

Episode 2 – Anne McIntyre-Lahner: From Data Fear to Data Enthusiasm

September 24th, 2024 | 1 Hr 3 Min

For our second episode, we interview Anne McIntyre-Lahner, the CEO of Action 2 Outcomes, and discuss overcoming the fear of data. Learn about Anne’s book, Working with Data in the Public Sector: From Fear to Enthusiasm. This is the first book designed for practicing and future public administration professionals to help them overcome any anxiety about using data effectively in their roles.

After 35+ years in the human services field, Anne knows how hard nonprofit and government employees work. She also knows how frustrating it can be to work really hard and still feel like you are just spinning your wheels.

Anne developed Action2Outcomes to support and empower government and nonprofit leaders who are ready to focus on outcomes.

Anne has worked in the human services field for thirty-seven years, including twenty-six years with the State of Connecticut, where she has served in numerous management roles for the Judicial Branch and the Department of Children and Families. Throughout her career, she has focused on systems change by developing and overseeing accountability practices and leading strategic planning and performance management work.

At DCF, Anne implemented agency-wide utilization of Results Based Accountability (RBA) for internal and contracted-service planning and performance management, and implemented an outcome-focused approach in disaster-preparedness planning for the agency. She is a leader in Connecticut’s inter-agency RBA projects, and as a certified RBA trainer, she regularly helps colleagues and service providers focus on results to improve their operations and outcomes. Anne is a frequently requested speaker on implementing data-driven, and outcome-focused work across large systems, and has presented at numerous local, national, and international conferences on data-driven decision-making, managing for results, and strengthening government accountability.

Before entering state service, Anne worked in the non-profit sector for 11 years. She holds a BA degree in English and Experimental Psychology, and a MS degree in Counseling and School Psychology. She is an adjunct faculty member in the Criminal Justice Department of the Henry C. Lee College of Criminal Justice and Forensic Sciences at the University of New Haven, and also at the University of Connecticut, Department of Public Policy.

Anne is the author of Stop Spinning Your Wheels: Using Results-Based Accountability to Steer Your Agency to Success about implementation of RBA for public or private agency leaders who are ready to focus on outcomes to ensure the people they serve are better off. She is co-author of Working with Data in the Public Sector — From Fear to Enthusiasm.

Anne and her husband own and operate Olympia Farm, a small family farm in Guilford, CT.

Turning Curves Podcast Episode One Mark Friedman

Episode 1- Clear Impact Sits Down With the Founder of RBA: Mark Friedman

June 25th, 2024 | 36 Min

For our pilot episode, we interview Mark Friedman, the founder of Results-Based Accountability and Director of the Fiscal Policy Studies Institute. Delve into what inspired Mark to develop RBA, what the future of the framework looks like, and explore his current reading list.

Mark Friedman is a speaker, consultant and author of the books Trying Hard Is Not Good Enough: How to Produce Measurable Improvements for Customers and Communities(2005) and Turning Curves — An Accountability Companion Reader (2017). Mr. Friedman founded and directs the Fiscal Policy Studies Institute (FPSI) in Santa Fe, New Mexico. He has provided training and consultation on his acclaimed Results Based Accountability™ (RBA) framework in over 40 US states and countries around the world. RBA has been used at every level of government and across nearly all government functions. It has been used by a wide range of non-government organizations including United Ways and charitable foundations. The Guardian called the framework “Simple Common Sense, Jargon-free.” In 2009, Mr. Friedman presented the RBA framework at the OECD 3rd World Forum in Busan, South Korea.

Prior to founding FPSI in 1996, Mr. Friedman served for four years as a Senior Associate at the Center for the Study of Social Policy in Washington, DC. In 2009 the Center awarded Mr. Friedman honorary status as Senior Fellow. Before working at the Center, Mr. Friedman served for 19 years in the Maryland Department of Human Resources (the State’s welfare and social services agency), including six years as the Department’s Chief Financial Officer.

In addition to Trying Hard Is Not Good Enough, Mr. Friedman has authored a wide range of papers on results-based decision-making, budgeting, strategic planning, and financing, including:

  • The Cosmology of Financing: Financing Reform of Family and Children’s Services: An Approach to the Systematic Consideration of Financing Options, Center for the Study of Social Policy, June, 1994.
  • From Outcomes to Budgets: An Approach to Outcome (or Result) Based Budgeting™ for Family and Children’s Services, Center for the Study of Social Policy, July 1995
  • Trading Outcome Accountability for Fund Flexibility: Negotiating New State Local Deals for Family and Children’s Service Dollars, Center for the Study of Social Policy, December, 1995.
  • A Strategy Map for Results Based Budgeting™: Moving from Theory to Practice, The Finance Project, Washington D.C., September, 1996.
  • A Guide to Developing and Using Performance Measures in Results-Based Budgeting™, The Finance Project, Washington, D.C., May, 1997.
  • A Guide to Developing and Using Family and Children’s Budgets, The Finance Project, Washington, D.C., August, 1998.
  • Reforming Finance, Financing Reform for Family and Children’s Services, The California Foundation Consortium, January, 2000
  • Results Accountability for California Proposition 10 Commissions: A Planning Guide for Improving the Well-Being of Young Children and Their Families, UCLA Center for Healthier Children, Families and Communities, March, 2000.
  • The Results Based Accountability™ Implementation Guide, March, 2001

Many of his publications can be accessed through the website: resultsaccountability.com.

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